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The Clueless at The Work Podcast

Anthony Garone talks with several experts in his network about how to navigate the complexities of professional work.

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Episode 12: Brain Cancer and Full-Time Work with Kara Hughes

Kara Hughes headshot photo

Kara Hughes shares her battle with brain cancer, her non-profit for cancer survivors, and what it’s like to work full time seeing 32 doctors per month.

Learn more about Kara Hughes

Automated Episode Transcript

Published on: Sat, Feb 22, 2020

[00:00:03] Anthony: Welcome to the Clueless at the work podcast, where we talk through a framework for being successful in your job. My name is Anthony Garone, and I’ll be hosting this show with some friends who are experts in helping people grow. Content is based on my book Clueless at The Work: Advice from a Corporate Tyrant, which is published by Stairway Press. You can find out more at Clueless at the work dot com.

Alright, today we have in the studio a special guest named Kara Hughes.

[00:00:34] Kara: Good morning!

[00:00:35] Anthony: Kara, thank you for joining us. So you are someone I’ve known for a few years. I got to know you as a recruiter in my last job, I believe, less than less than seven years ago, I think we’ve known each other five or six years. Yeah, and you’ve got a lot of stuff going on. You were one of the most heroic and brave and, ah, effortful people that I know just someone who’s so so motivated to ah, live and thrive and ah, and do the most with your life. So I’m excited to have you here For the listeners. Kara is a recruiter. Ah, and that’s how we met we She’s, ah, technology recruiter, at least at the time. And she’s recently started a nonprofit. So, Kara, why don’t you tell us about your work

[00:01:29] Kara: Hi Anthony and hi, everyone for listening. Thanks for checking in. Um, so I, ah, am a recruiter. I always have been. I think it’s born into my blood. I’m just naturally, really great at bringing people together and creating harmony. And so, from there, uh, while I was working as a tack recruiter, I was diagnosed with brain cancer, and it was, um, pretty invasive. It was about seven inches by six inches by two inches deep, non respectable. So what that means is that they opened my head to take a peek, gave me a sun roof, but then left the sunroof open and couldn’t take any of the big, bad Ah, cancer that had grown in there. And so I continued to recruit through it. And, um and I really saw that as a chance to, um, conquer. I conquer everything that I step out and try to dio um, how you measure that I’ve now learned. I guess when I was younger, I didn’t know how to measure success is, and now successes have so many different meanings. So as I was being an excellent recruiter and getting kudos work, I was fighting for my life and for my daughter to have a mom. And so, um, the journey went from there, and, um, I started a nonprofit called Relentless Love Cancer Foundation. And then we have a couple of projects that spring from that relentless life project. So the first part of the 1st 1 is a 501 c three, where, um, I do advocacy and hand holding education for people who are diagnosed, or health care providers or people that are care providers. Because so much we don’t see that part of the peace. We see the fighter, the struggler, but the people that are holding the glue together, you know, So we focus on that. We provide service is there into provide if you need food or small appliances. Clothing. Um, if you need to be adopted for Christmas, Um, if you need someone to go to your doctor’s appointments with you, if you know when you get diagnosed with cancer, the doctor says, So you have cancer, and this is where it’s at. And now you have to go here or here. And these are your choices. Um, we take it a step further. We educate you on everything that cancer is what you can expect from it. How to talk to your family about it, Um, ideas and and proven, uh, tricks of homeopathy to help you at home to keep yourself safe and also very, very healthy. I mean, there’s just so much that goes into it. And so I started this nonprofit Thio be an outreach and really show my daughter that even through our struggles, we can always rise above we can always be in servitude. And so that’s how that started. And it became a what started out as a project. And now it’s a five, a one c three, and, um, I’m still struggling to not struggling. I don’t like that word. People say, struggling with your health. I don’t struggle with my health, a command, my health and and I don’t let it rule me. So, um, every day is a new doctor’s appointment, and every day is a new opportunity to see where he can take it.

[00:04:57] Anthony: You are, um, Well, when I first met you. You were I believe, in the earlier stages of all of this. And I believe you had just had your skull surgery brain surgery before, just before you and I had met. And that’s one thing that stood up. I stood out to me that I thought, How is this person like, out of the hospital? How is this person out of her house? How is she functioning in a in a really difficult job, you know, meeting tons of people. I mean, what you do require so much energy and so much motivation and a really hustle attitude. Yeah. So, um, can you talk a little bit about how you have? I don’t I don’t even know it Managed. Battling cancer while also working and not letting the the illness overcome you?

[00:05:57] Kara: Certainly. Well, I always have seen my body as a body, and there’s things that can be added or taken away. And so I guess maybe first realizing that we are not the only thing we can control is our body. And even then it still does what it wants. But I can control the idea to move my right arm and I will move my right arm. So if there’s something in my body that I want to change weak muscle, um, heart conditions, anything that I work on, all parts of that to keep myself whole. So while I was working, I just I had my first by my daughters, my attitude of gratitude. And I have pictures on my desk that say that, and, um, I really fight for her for myself. You have to fight for yourself first, obviously, but you have recruiting is, um people wouldn’t think it’s very, uh, energy exerting. But it is because you have to remember so much. And when you’re going through chemo, you have what’s called brain fog or no fog. And then I had radiation high, high, high doses of radiation to my brain. Actually think right, you’re You and I were pretty well acquainted by then when I was having the radiation to my brain, and then when they went in and put the mesh in, that was another operation to cover my head. Um, so now I have. Then I went back in and we had, um, the skull put in, um and then I’ve gone through three shuns because I acquired hydrocephalus from it. Um e I mean, it goes on from there, but really, How I combine health and and work is it’s kind of a measurable thing. Both things correct. Like you look at your work and you write down your goals and where you want to see yourself. In 56 months, 56 years. I did the same thing with my health. I said, Well, I’m not going anywhere because I refused to leave this planet. So what do I need to do to get there and what What are my micro goals in my macro goals? And my daughter was part of my team, but not part of the take care of mommy team. Right? The rah rah cheerleader At that time, the company I was working for, um was very supportive of me, but I also was supportive of them. If I felt good, I would goto work. Um, and I didn’t let myself sit in it, but and I went and I gave him 100% every time, and they saw that which was beautiful. Um, but there did come a time where I had to resign because of the shunting and other things with my health. So, um, that’s what made me turn my direction towards starting my non profit because even though I might have be laid up a lot of the time, um, there’s so many things that you can do from your bed or your chair. Um, Thio organize and help bring the community together to help other people.

[00:08:56] Anthony: You are just unstoppable.

[00:08:59] Kara: Yeah, I That’s why I named my mind nonprofits Ah, relentless love and relentless life because I’m relentless in everything I do. And relentless is usually seen as a poor word. You know, like a bad word. Um but it’s not. It just means that you are unstoppable and you won’t. You won’t. You will take nothing for a no and you’ll take everything for yes, and you’ll just continue to plummet ahead full speed.

[00:09:26] Anthony: How do you How do you handle the difficulties of the brain fog and those kinds of things in your in your work and still like finds success because part of what I mentioned in the book is you will have catastrophe. You will have illness in your family. It might be you. In this case, it is, um, injured you have to. You’re raising your daughter. You are supporting your daughter. You have to make enough money to do those things. And, um So how do you manage, Like, do the people that you work with Have any idea that you’re going through this? Like or are you just how what’s your system for making sure that you know everything you need to know when you’re going to talk to somebody as a recruiter, you know, because there’s a lot like you said, there’s a lot you have to remember about the job, what the company wants, what the person is able to do what their work history is. You know those kinds of things.

[00:10:28] Kara: So I’m a I’m a very big note taker. I’m a very big, um communicator. I’m That’s my specialties. I communicate, Um, in and out Also body language. I went to school for be Vural health, and I learned how to read body language and and worked with adults and Children for a long time that were disabled, whether they be mentally disabled or, uh, visited. Yep. Born that way. Sorry. Developmentally disabled. Ah, big thing with all of the, um, beautiful health. Uh, things that I’ve had to traverse. We lose our words a lot. So thank you. And excuse me if I d’oh, um so from there, I learned to really document really well being a behaviorist, you know, soap notes. It’s medical field. And so from there I took on my recruiting in the same rule, and I had my templates that I had made for you know dot netters, Um, be a CZ, you know, whatever position I was looking for, um, and I had what’s important to you. What’s what’s gonna change your mind on the drop of a dime if that’s a difference in that position. So I made a lot of forms early on really early on. Um, probably in my early twenties that I have kept with me and, um, you know, update them as as I need to go. So even though recruiting just comes off the hit because when you start to, you know, speak to a software developer, you know what they dio. But there again, you lose your word tracks or you lose your, um your thought process. So I just had all these templates and I’ve had them forever, and I I use them. So going into my health care, I did the same thing. And I have a lot of doctors. I have, like, I don’t know, 32 doctors specialists that I see. And so I just everything I do I use my technology, every piece of technology I can to to offload things off my brain to keep my stress low, as everyone should be doing. I think a lot of people think they need to keep everything in their head, and then they and then they end up getting stressed out in job burnout and life burn out, and then we get sick, right? So, ironically, I made all of these great forms to reduce stress. Um, so maybe I could just be stress free while battling everything I was battling and continuing to, um, fund and finance my daughter and my life. Ah, while going to Doctor’s appointments every single day.

[00:13:10] Anthony: Yeah. Ah, what’s what’s stunning to me? And I guess you you are hugely inspiring to me. Ah, is that nothing gets you down. And when I’m when I feel down in the dumps about something, I’m just like, you know what Karas out there doing this. She’s She’s had all these surgeries, you know, all these procedures. She sees 32 doctors, you know, she’s at the doctor almost every single day, and I’m complaining about X. And it just seems it helps me get perspective on my life just knowing that you are out there battling. Um, So whether you are you and I are directly interacting or not, you are inspiring to me. Um, for those reasons, just if I know if you can do it, then I should be able to do it like you are battling cancer. How many hours a week are you down in a bed or at a doctor’s office? You we talk about there’s 24 hours a day and ate sleep. What are you doing with the rest of the 16? Well, you’ve got, you know, four or five hours less than most people.

[00:14:27] Kara: And one doctor’s appointment could take six hours because doctors are so stacked back. And, um, you asked a question earlier that I wanted to answer on that. Your systems, my systems yet was around my system. We can go back to that, but yeah, I appreciate that. People do hear of me or no me and become inspired because there’s nothing we can’t traverse. I mean, who’s the person that’s always there when you’re winning and who’s the person that’s always there when you’re losing, right? Yeah. And who’s your team? Who is that person than those people that are gonna push you uphill when you’re running that five K? I can’t run a five K, but my life is a five K and you know so I have very few tight knit people in my life that know what I traverse. Um, the people that I come into contact with with my nonprofit, I do share with them that I’m a survivor and I and we you know, then we get to know each other personally, which is really big communication and relationships are huge, huge, huge, huge. And they’re authentic. And I think some people air to surface anymore in the world. So that is when I d’oh bring out, you know, the full guns and let people know and I’ll let you know. So that way the people listening kind of know what I do deal with. I I started off before the brain cancer was found I was having thyroid problems, so I basically looked like I was having a heart attack. I was. My heart was out of control. So this was for a couple of years before the brain cancers and, um and then I was having clarity issues, Not so much clarity, like at work or anything. But just all of a sudden, I’d say, you know, what was I just doing big headaches? Um, and then finally, they they went in and they couldn’t see the mass. And so they had to open my head, and they just kept cutting and cutting and cutting, and they found out it was a blood tumor. So it’s I have a good but a bad cancer. It’s non Hodgkin, follicular non Hodgkin’s lymphoma of the brain, which does re occur. So I don’t keep that in my head on literally or figuratively. Um and then from there I ended up having to have my snow school replaced. And then I’ve had three shunts. One has malfunctioned. Um, I’ve had, um, 24 surgeries, and, um, now I have a pacemaker. That’s really cool. At 42 I’ve had ports I’ve had, um I think I’m getting called the Bionic Woman now instead of Wonder Woman because I I wanna you know, it’s gonna be a clone. I want to be a drone. So, yeah, that’s, you know, there’s there’s a long story there, and every single time I get diagnosed, like, three weeks ago, my doctor came out and said on Tuesday, he said, You have many, many multiple fatal flaws with your heart right now, but the one I can help with is getting you a pacemaker. That will help one of the problems. And he said, we’re doing it on Thursday. So, you know, we just go with, we roll with it, right? You just roll with it. And, um, the people that I work with that have cancer, they also are going through the same struggles. So if I say hey, I can’t have a conversation today, um, they totally understand. Yeah, but I don’t. You did say, you know, how do people know what you go through? No, I don’t share my I share my story of triumphant, um, climbing to the top of every single mountain. But, um, sometimes I don’t share how we get there.

[00:18:05] Anthony: Yeah. Do you ever wanna just smack someone in the head and be like your problems or nothing? Do

[00:18:10] Kara: you know what idea? Well, since day one, and, um, my boss it pds where I worked. Um, Brian, he was awesome. He would say he I actually had to help him learn a little bit about, um I guess how I handled it because the team would come in and say, I have a headache. I want to go home and he would say, Close the door. Uh, there’s a woman right outside this door that’s going through chemo and radiation and raising a daughter. And she’s here kicking tush. So go home if you like. But remember, it’s for a headache, and she’s here. And so after I heard that that was happening, I went in and I said, I don’t ever um, you know, if you come home and you say, I must I must tell you about my day. It was so formidable. I say, Let’s hear it because I never say that anyone’s struggle is greater than the other person, because it’s only what we’re dealing with at that time,

[00:19:05] Anthony: right? And you can’t know pain you haven’t experienced It’s just what you what you’re going through is just so extremely beyond you know what? 19. But

[00:19:15] Kara: I don’t know what it feels like to lose a limb. So, you know, what would that be like? You know, So I just look up and, um, I tell everyone, Just keep looking up. I’m also a big nerd. I love astrophysics. So that

[00:19:33] Anthony: is awesome. I’m just kind of overwhelmed, you know, hearing, hearing about this. What do you? Um, one thing that I’ve been reading about lately is the idea that the I I can’t do something. Well, unless I see the world Onley through this lens and I will not allow the world to exist without it, you know what I mean? Like for you, it’s I am not going to let this bring me down. I’m sure you have other sort of axioms or lenses like that. Can you share some of those? What are the things that you refuse to allow happen in your life or be a become a reality in the world?

[00:20:21] Kara: Refused to have the people that air in my close circle suffer silently. And that’s huge because that creates drama in your field and then in your friend’s field and her family’s field. And no one wants to feel alone. Um, so that’s a huge one. And the part of the reason why I’ve done everything that I have done with my outreach is because this struggle has been majority of Lee on my own. Um, I don’t have family support here, And so, um, and I only like I said, allow a couple of people in. So, um,

[00:21:02] Anthony: about what? What do you refuse to allow into the world?

[00:21:06] Kara: I refused to allow trauma or excess hate. So I’m a big activist for civil rights and I and for and for people’s rights to make their own choices. And for, um, everyone just a really see Okay. So when I was little, I had a pair of sunglasses and they were very see through, and they were. They were rose colored and at the bottom, they were clear, and I would only look through the top and along along my journey, I’ve done journaling. I have a YouTube channel. I have a lot of things, and some of the the totems of the words that I wrote was I only watch the world through rose colored lenses because that’s how my brain sees things is where’s the positive in this? I never go into a project and say, Where’s the negative or, you know, how are we gonna fix these problems? No, it’s how are we gonna capitalize on what’s right and fix the things that we haven’t so making sure that people also put on my rose colored sunglasses, which I have, Um and it just makes the world a much more beautiful place. Um, I don’t believe in I believe in sitting still long enough to allow your spirit to ruminate, to get your mind to understand where your body’s about to go, and then we get up when we go.

[00:22:28] Anthony: Do you ever find yourself overthinking? I mean, Mike, my guess is you are just constantly gut instinct. Go, go, go.

[00:22:36] Kara: I work a lot on gut, but what I do do is I do a lot of meditation, and when I meditate, I ask for clarity on how to integrate with other people that maybe are a little more closed minded because they’ve been in so much pain all their life. Like maybe they came from abusive lives or you were never heard or validated. And so I always That’s the first thing as I always remember. Always remember that this person has a story and they’re coming at me from a container. And I’m out here in the world with no walls.

[00:23:07] Anthony: Right? And I bet you encounter this multiple times a day as a recruiter,

[00:23:12] Kara: as a recruiter, as a doctor, as going to a patient, a CZ meeting other patients as as meeting people that need help. Um, make meeting people. It’s street corners and seeing why are you so angry today? You know, like tell me about it. Just tell me about it. Just tell me about it. It’s really just talking to people just like recruiting. Where? What do you want to do with your life? Where do you want to spend eight to, you know, 10 hours a day. You know, who were these people you want to work with? Um why do you want that company? What does that company bring to you? What does it call to you? Because we shouldn’t just be doing something because it’s what we’re supposed to do. You know, we’re told we grow up when we get a job and we support the family. And but there are so many other ways, too. Live your life and you’re one of them. You do so much to do a few things, just a couple, just a couple. And it’s it’s beautiful to see and engage with other people that are also understanding how to juggle right have to always just juggle.

[00:24:16] Anthony: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. How do you handle? At least in my mind, I look at the technology industry and I think there are a lot of good people, but I think there’s a lot of greed and there’s a lot of, like, unnecessary stuff happening, you know, like does this product really need to exist? This thing only exists because there’s an investor or this person like they’re completely just motivated by. They know there’s money in the market, and that’s really all they care about. Like, how do you handle those situations? You are such a analogy, realistic, pure person, and the tech industry is It’s so many things. You know, there’s pockets of of, of your spirit in the tech industry. But there’s also a lot that’s not so. How do you sort of lived through that and and deal with they the difficult candidates, the companies that are kind of wasting people’s time or expecting too much or burning people out, Like, how do you as a recruiter, get through that every day?

[00:25:24] Kara: So one of the questions that I that I would ask is what environment do you wanna work in? And so not I’m not on Lee. A lot of recruiters will take the ticket resume, talk to the person for a second on the phone, which you’ve had this happen to you 100 million times, and then they slam you into a company with, you know, submit you without asking if it’s even okay with you to submit your private information. Um, so that’s not my ethic. My ethic is to go in, gets to know you as a human, like, who are you? What makes you tick? What’s gonna make you drive? Because that’s when you’re going to be best at that company. And that company doesn’t value mission vision that yours are. If you guys aren’t driving, I’m not even gonna bring that company to your door. But also, I’m gonna question Am I gonna work with that company because I’m gonna go into that company. I’m gonna interview not only the hiring managers who we’re gonna They’re used to talking to recruiters every day. They just say Okay, what do you need? Give me the job description. I’ll find your people. But what I do is I say no, no, no, I got to come over. I gotta meet you have got to meet your people. I’ve gotta ask them questions. My private questions that I keep to myself until you get to meet me. Um, and I get to really know that company and that team and that pod, like I see people as whales and their pods and they choose to swim together. Or we can all choose to fail together. Right? You’re saying, Are we going into a company? That’s a good one. So twofold. That’s how I recruit. But I also do my education with my daughter before repurchase anything. And we say, Where is this coming from? What’s being made for? Is there a better product out there? Is this where we should be spending our money? Can we be helping a smaller company? Or do we want to go ahead and use like apple. Um, I used I used them. Now, um, it took me a long time to buy into it. But once I bought when I once I started learning and teaching my daughter about the technology, that’s when I decided to make a purchase. So, you know, you do have large corporations that do great things. You have to see, you know, and this is big for when I’m recruiting especially. And also when I’m choosing my company’s, um what does that company do to give back? Do we have days that that are required that every employee goes and does community service? Or is it just a open door policy where you expect that your teams are going to get together and go on help? Do you have a scholarship fund? Are you? What are you doing with your money? You know, um, are you are you supporting political parties that maybe people don’t agree with or advancing? Um, things in the pharmaceuticals that maybe you don’t agree with, really know where your money is going. And also, when you’re making money where it’s coming from, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and that’s huge, and I’ll have those conversations if they’re appropriate if that person is that deep. But if not, I’m having my best interest of watching out for them.

[00:28:24] Anthony: It’s funny, Um, I had unethical choice about a job several years ago. It’s a credit card company. I’m sure you know which one I’m talking about. I’m sure here in Phoenix, but they do credit card processing, but they’re also like the number one pornography subscription, credit card bill processor, you know, and ah, On the one hand, it was like, Well, they’re just their credit card processor. Sure, most of their business comes from pornography, but, like they’re just processing credit cards, they do plenty of other businesses, too. But then, when the hiring manager said, How do you feel about your 75 to 80% of your paycheck coming from money? That’s, um, from pornography subscriptions. That’s when I was like Okay, yeah, I can’t I can’t do this, you know,

[00:29:21] Kara: it doesn’t fall in line with your core values,

[00:29:24] Anthony: right? But I just I’ve never really encountered that before, and I was in my twenties, you know, earlier in my career, but it was on the one hand like the money was good. And I was like, they’re just a credit card company. You know, every credit card company is gonna have illicit transactions in that kind of thing, but on the other hand, service provider, Right. But amex, you know, amex wouldn’t be interviewing saying, How do you feel about you know, 30% of your revenue coming from pornography And 20% from this, that it was, like, such an overwhelming amount that it had to be linked in some way, you know? But I think about that because that was the first time I really encountered the ethical choice.

[00:30:07] Kara: I had one as well. I I had a client that was mine for the taking. Um, they wanted to work with me. And I sat down and did my pros and cons. My daughter does pros and cons. I love it. She’s 10 and she does pros and cons, and I do pros and cons on that company. And, um, it was all that in just it was a company for that industry. Now, I have no problem with that for other people, but then I start to dig into Does it further sex trafficking does it further this, you know. So that’s where I have to say Those are things that I don’t agree with, just kind of like, you know, when people are trying to say, Oh, but care has had cancer. But I just broke my knee. You know, um, I have to say, Are they supporting a larger, you know, industry that I can’t or or something that’s going, you know, on the black market that I don’t want out there because, you know, we have families and we have morals, so choices

[00:31:10] Anthony: and that company will find

[00:31:12] Kara: they’ll find there. They’ll find people and

[00:31:14] Anthony: they are out there. They have their own a pod of whales, right?

[00:31:18] Kara: Exactly, Exactly. And that’s okay. There’s so many more people out there that walk and talk that business that want to be in that business and and we don’t. So that’s okay.

[00:31:28] Anthony: So I think you will be the ah 12th episode of this podcast, and three of you are the third recruiter that I’ve had on the podcast because I developed relationships with recruiters being a hiring manager. But also I just find their networks are huge and they’re really interesting people a lot

[00:31:47] Kara: of the times. If they’re good at that, their craft?

[00:31:50] Anthony: Exactly. Yeah. So what do you see happening as a recruiter in this industry? Like what’s been on your mind as a tech recruiter? Ah, you know, going into 2020. What are you seeing this year?

[00:32:02] Kara: So I am seeing a new trend in call centre recruiting, and it’s not four call center staff. Its recruiters are becoming call center people, and they are off shoring it near shoring it in on shoring it. And it came from the tech industry offshoring near shoring and on shoring all of our people. Yeah, all of our development. And so people are, and this is going to start happening a lot. We’re going to start having farms, employees, farms, because when the computer takes over, they need people to take over what the computer used to dio. And so we’re going to be having call centers of recruiters that are, you know, not as in depth, not as savvy and don’t have the skill set. Um, and and and that’s gonna be an interesting acceptance and growth. Um,

[00:33:03] Anthony: well, yeah, and they’re probably not gonna be driven by the same compensation. They’ll probably be mostly salary, maybe some compensation for their placements. Whereas a lot of recruiters are mostly competence or ah, mostly. What was the word? L air? Yeah, like they’re compensated through placements, right? Commission

[00:33:23] Kara: commissions and bonuses? Yes. And then, you know, what’s the chance of that person’s gonna have gotten out to see the actual people sitting in the desk? Um, I I can recruit nationally. I can recruit internationally, but that in insurers that I have to do Skype meetings with my people. And I want to really know the environment, the culture, because I am the person that’s making that match for you. You know, um, I when I first started recruiting my first job, actually, as a true recruiter, um, we had to do a lot of, um, convincing the family because it was a construction industry. And so most of the most of our ah demographic were males that were married with Children. Um, and there were a lot of females that were also married, so I had to do it in reverse. But what I said was, let’s get together on a, um I went to the Chamber of commerce. I went all around town, and I found all the pluses to bring people to Owen undesirable town. It was Las Vegas. Yeah. And so, um, not only did I have to find the right project manager for the position, but if they had a family I had to talk to, I chose to talk to the family to encourage them to move to a town that I actually knew. The schools there, softball teams, how their little leagues were everything. And, um, you know, these are the things that we’re gonna be losing in the long run, and you’re gonna lose that. As you said, you grow good relationships with the recruiters that have vast networks and and think outside the box, most likely correct. Yeah. And so I just, um it’s gonna be interesting move when they it’s already happening.

[00:35:07] Anthony: Has to. There’s there’s more jobs than people.

[00:35:10] Kara: Yes, right now, it’s a candidate market and not a, um, not a employer market. So, um, yeah, everyone, including recruiters, are hot. And so they have to move fast. The 1st 1st person to slap that name on someone’s desk, they own that person from any other crazy Yeah. So if you have if you have 1000 people taking minimum wage jobs doing call recruiting, um, we have to ask ourselves, Are we still giving the quality to the candidate end of the company? Are we doing them a disservice or a service,

[00:35:46] Anthony: right? Yeah, I every time on LinkedIn when I post that I’ve got, I’m gonna be hiring. I’ll get 10 connections that day on Lincoln from all over the world. Like there are people just scouring Lincoln searching for posts that say, developer remote, whatever it is. And I have to put in the post, you know, Please know recruiters, no offshore, deaf, you know, no offshore whatever. But they still reach out because they don’t read the post. You know, say scour for those post

[00:36:20] Kara: how those companies work. And there are many companies like this, right? Lincoln is one. And then we have multiple others multiple others that you can pay to have someone recruit for you. Do have recruiters that come in, sit in an office, and it’s another farm, and they send e mails to the person. Like if you had your software. Um, excuse me. All of your experience your plethora of experience video resume out there, it auto generates or, uh, or an actual human will. Send that person an email and say you need to apply for this job. It makes their purse. The company’s numbers obviously looked great out the door. I’m getting so many submit ALS. But the reason why you’re getting the same Mittal’s is because they just shoved that job out. And it’s just you, you know, it’s just a network of computers moving in and out, in and out. So is it really a person that read anything? No, they just said, Hey, here’s a new job. I’m applying for it first because if I get there first, I might have a chance at it.

[00:37:19] Anthony: Yeah, it’s I just can’t believe that, you know, like, I’ll post I’m hiring a developer and then, like three people from Ukraine to from Poland, you know, three from the Czech Republic.

[00:37:32] Kara: Like I’m sorry, each one be today,

[00:37:35] Anthony: right? And, um, the jobs are it. It’s just amazing. These air like senior level jobs, but it doesn’t even matter. They’re just There are so many people, it’s clear there’s so much demand for placing people and I get just as a hiring manager. I don’t even people aren’t even reaching out to recruit me for other positions. Just that I am a hiring manager. I get so many connections, so many e mails. So it’s really hard. And we have an exclusivity contract right now with the recruiter. Some like Sorry, I’ve got an exclusivity deal. They’re like, Well, can I just please give you these couple of names? You know, just in case like, No, no, you can’t. I I always say I’m happy to meet you over coffee,

[00:38:22] Kara: and that’s where you have to challenge someone’s ethics, right? Because, um, I’m extremely ethical. If you say that your exclusive, um that you have a retained firm, then I thank you so much, but I would like to connect with you because you’re an awesome person and we can continue a business relationship. But I’m not gonna push any further.

[00:38:43] Anthony: It’s funny. There’s a guy at PDS who just reached out, and I really appreciated what he wrote. He was like, uh hello, Anthony. Um slash make word music guy, slash corporate tyrant. You know, like he read my profile. He actually said things that were meaningful to me

[00:39:03] Kara: came through is a human

[00:39:04] Anthony: right? He came through as a human and he said, Ah, I know you’re not hiring Ah, or you’re not doing recruiters And I know it’s exclusive and all that stuff, but, um, you know, I’d like a least a shot at this and I said, Well, you know, it’s exclusive, so I can’t do anything. But I’m happy to meet with you and every response had humor and human personality in it. And I was like, I need to meet this person because I am more interested in meeting humans in this industry than just people who are looking to make money off of me.

[00:39:37] Kara: Yeah, my tenure, a PDS was my favorite tenure of any of my career’s because, um, I have the ability. They allowed me the flexibility to be myself, which, um is I love life and I love people. And I love to know your little nuances of you know what your favorite things are that you collect in your office. Like I’m looking at a statue of Bach right now. You know, I love to know those little things that’s very important to me. It tells me who you are as a human and and how you’re gonna fit into my team. I love I love it. I love it. I call myself the marriage maker. And if I will interview, they always say, Why a marriage maker? And I said because you’re married to that chair. We’re married to those people. Like you better like them. Absolutely. Where you signed that? That that letter, you know, But that’s that’s life.

[00:40:27] Anthony: It is. It’s amazing. All right, we should wrap up. Ah, I know I could talk to you all day, but we’re almost 50 minutes in, I think. Oh,

[00:40:35] Kara: my goodness.

[00:40:36] Anthony: Yes. Oh, please plug your nonprofit. Tell people how they can find you and, you know, donate money, their time, whatever it is.

[00:40:47] Kara: Definitely we take, we take donations of clothing, blankets, food. We take donations of, um, you know, money. Whatever. However it comes. There’s so many ways,

[00:41:00] Anthony: Alice who we is.

[00:41:01] Kara: So the name of my organization is relentless. Love Cancer Foundation. You can find me at relentless Love Cancer foundation dot or ge and I, uh, we I am a team of one, um, until it is large enough that I can get additional cancer survivors to join the conversation piece with me. So we d’oh do fundraisers and you’ll find links on our page. And we love volunteers that want to come out and help we, um we make food for people that are down with chemo. We go out and help clean houses. Um, but the biggest pieces the advocacy and the, um, teaching the way of the health care industry and how they can best suit themselves to keep themselves as healthy as they can so they can make it to the other side.

[00:41:54] Anthony: And for listeners who are not in the Phoenix Arizona area, just go to the website and donate. Yeah. Okay. Cool, relentless love Cancer foundation dot or ge.

[00:42:06] Kara: That’s right.

[00:42:07] Anthony: It’s a short domain.

[00:42:08] Kara: I know. I made it the longest one possible because if you were really wanting to come see us, then you had to commit to typing it out. Yeah, Excellent.

[00:42:18] Anthony: Carrot. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:42:20] Kara: You really appreciates for having me was great.

[00:42:24] Anthony: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clueless at the work podcast. You can pick up a copy of the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and at Clueless at the work dot com, where you’ll also find book excerpts, podcast transcriptions and more related content. Please consider subscribing to the podcast and check out our previous episodes as we walk through the book content together.

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About the Author

Anthony Garone headshot

Anthony Garone is a creative technology leader with a heart for helping people understand who they are, where they excel, and what they can offer the world. He has co-founded and advised several startups, runs Make Weird Music, and leads software and technology teams at an identity theft protection firm, InfoArmor, which was acquired by Allstate in October 2018.

Anthony lives in Mesa, Arizona with his wife and three children.